Glorifying Neo-Nazis, this is a new, if expectable low--the piece appeared in Der Standard, which was founded by Oscar Bronner whose father had to flee the real Nazis in 1938 (oh, the irony)
As to: " ‘I don't want to die for these people who twiddle their thumbs and wait for Putin.’
[I have no idea what Punf means by this"
It is very easy to understand: the majority of inhabitants of the Donbass and adjacent regions don´t want to belong to Ukraine anymore. That is the dirty secret of this war. On the one hand Ukraine claims to want to "liberate" the Donbass. But on the other hand the actual people there don´t want to be "liberated" by anybody but the Russians. Witness also the latest call of Selenskyi to evacuate the Donbass. Why would he do that if supposedly people there opposed the Russians?
Please give me the original German quotation. By the way it reminds me of an article in "Rolling Stone" where the writer accompanied Ukrainian troops in the Donbass. As an aside the Ukrainians told the US journalist they didn´t trust the locals and suspected them of feeding them information. In a later version of the article this information was dropped.
I also had a talk by phone with a very good friend of mine. He is Russian and can´t publish in Russia. He is completely opposed to the war and was in Ukraine reporting for Meduza. He told me that half the people he talked to in Kramatorsk, Mikolajev and Odessa were "fanatically pro Russian".
The lies our media feed us about the Ukraine war would make Goebbels proud.
Während ihre Kameraden Sledak und Rijs in den Donbass versetzt werden – der Asow-Effekt soll auch dort für eine Kehrtwende sorgen –, sind die beiden in Charkiw geblieben, zunächst einmal. Punf hat wenig Lust auf "Bombass". "Deshalb bin ich 2014 nicht Soldat geworden", sagt er. Damals konzentrierte sich der Konflikt auf den Osten des Landes; Russland war nur marginal ein Thema. "Ich will nicht für diese Leute sterben, die Däumchen drehen und auf Putin warten."
Few groups are as racist as the ADL. They give themselves the right to declare the cultural heritage of people like me as racist, right-wing extremist, and national socialist.
They have apparently never heard of 'Reductio ad Hitlerum' (also called "Hitler ate sugar-fallacy"). They can all go die in a fire. Let's see them declare the scimitar, the shahada, the shova, the hammer & sickle, the red star, or any of thousands of other symbols and geometric figures as crimethink.
No, they won't, will they?
Only symbols of peoples who will not bomb them, not assault them, not throw molotovs at their homes are fair game. More than 370 000 dead due to the Saudi war in Jemen. A race war as much as 'holy' war as it is realpolitik. Does the green flag of islam make the ADLs list of unsanctioned symbols? No.
(I know, this isn't the focus of the post, but it is a part of the greater culture war aimed at destroying all our heritage by declaring it "nazi", one symbol at the time.)
Rikard, I'm not going to argue with you about the ADL comment, for I'm with you on this one. (Still, every group that's ethnically or religiously biased is, inhrently so, I'd argue, very much in favour of furthering their own group's interests: the ADL isn't different in this regard, but they do have a much bigger bullhorn than, say, the Hmong or Eritrean interest groups.)
I'm moving to call this 'cognitive dissonance', and an extreme form of it.
As to the bottom comment in parentheses, well, if everything becomes Nazified, I suppose we must talk about WW2, its (comprehensive) origins, and the many lies hat surround that conflict ever since.
I believe (ot think - denken) that acknowledging ethnic/racial bias can be done in a non-hateful way, and that it breeds far worse long-time effects to repress, ignore and try to 'unperson' all the differences great and small between people.
As I'm sure to have mentioned, it's a matter of perspective as in distance, both physical and cultural.
How different are swedes and danes, really? Well, who's asking? To us, we are very different - but ask a lapplander or an älvdaling or a tornedaling and they'll tell you scanians are basically danes, whereas the scanian would claim the tornedalings are more or less finns.
It would I think be far better to allow such differences to exist, even to be emphasised as friendly jibes and competition, thus burying ancient grudges under a layer of laughter.
The cinch is this: displacing ethnicities, as has been done intentionally by many powerbrokers both today and historically, cannot be allowed to take palce and influence this.
In eastern Ukraine, the population is mixed. To me, they all look and sound the same, which would insult them both (and I guess it's no surprise to you how many people who might quip that austrians are basically germans, not knowing the history of either) - and that I think makes it difficult for us to understand this just as Jugoslavia was. We (as in westrn/northern europeans within the US cultural hegemony) looked at Jugoslavia and saw peace, not understanding that said peace was imposed by military dictatorship ultimately backed by the Red Army. Remove both the authoritarian forces enforcing peace with the threat of force, and all the old repressed conflicts boil up. Same with Ukraine, basically. Compare it to the Baltic states, where neither Russia nor NATO managed to create this situation 10 years ago, though not for lack of trying. The russians in the Baltic states simply didn't have much to complain about, having far more freedoms and civil liberties than in Russia, and thus didn't want to serve as Putin's proxies anymore than the Latvians et al wanted to be Clinton's and Bush's stooges.
Speaking of Eritrea, the entire Horn of Africamight be coming to a boil. If the US looks to be electing Trump again in two years, or an equivalent person, China will have to move quickly to cement its influence before the US can pay off Egypt and Saudi do act in their stead. In two years time, the US will not have the economy for much of its present adventurism, if the trends hold - by then as many as 20 000 000 migrants from South and Central America may have crossed the border. That's 20 000 000 more mouths to feed, waste to handle, and pander to in local elections.
As an aside, a lot of ukrainian refugees here are returning, due to mistreatment from swedish governement authorities: single mothers being placed among moslem men for instance. Also, the state media tirelessly pumps out the message that they aren' really refugees and are very expensive, a line of argument and questions they frequently call "nazism" when people ask about the costs of 1 500 000 unemployable africans, arabs and sundry, all lacking need for asylum (due to them flying home to visit the places they've 'fled' from).
Disgusting - the socialist Democrats simply fears that potentially hundreds of thousands of refugees from a former socialist state won't vote for them, but might instead vote for the Christian Democrats.
I know a woman here, a Ukrainian immigrant to the USA. She's in her 40s, a US citizen now, but still has family in Ukraine. Back in 2014, I asked her for her opinion on what was going on during the Maidan unpleasantness. She refused to talk about it. This spring I asked her what she thought of the current situation. She said, "Putin has succeeded in uniting all Ukrainians against him." I was intrigued by this, because I know her native language is Russian, not Ukrainian, and I pointed that out. "Yes, that's correct, but that doesn't mean I'm Russian!"
I also know (knew) a bunch of Ukrainian-Americans during my stay in the US (NY): most left in the 1970s, and they're supportive because it's where their parents grew up. Can't (won't) argue with that notion, but it's hard to see how and where this argument (patriotism) ends and where the ill effects (nationalism, or worse) begins.
The quest to capture the hierarchy has been going on in Europe for thousands of years. The more brutal of them know the more they can take which always results in the less they can hold. But still that's ok with them, they can hide with those ill-gotten gains in the Swiss Mountains.
I think the Swiss are weak and could easily be wiped out if Europe flipped the switch to take it all back.
Well, if memory (of 10 years living in Switzerland) serves, you're not supposed to tell them that their 'black gold' is, actually and literally, stolen gold.
As to whether or not Switzerland could have been invaded in WW1 and WW2, well, I suppose that their continud existence served one or more purposes (think: the 'Bank of Int'l Settlement' in Basle).
I know a Swiss who emigrated and started a farm here in the state I live in. Interesting farm plan with all natural methodology (he vacationed in Switzerland in winter as the cows went dry) 3/4 hand dairy cows being pastured, the cows fed themselves! One little bitty tractor on 180 acres. So there has to be some people there that would be willing to rebel.
As to these terms, yes, I know about them. Is there an argument contained therein that's not whataboutism?
As to the translation, please read the opening paragraph of the translation, which contains the below-reprduced explanation:
[die Russen, a common trope that, while seemingly o.k.-ish as a descriptor, is used throughout the piece; it also has quite negative connotations, hence this translation]
I thought I could--should--do so due to the pro-Azov slant in the piece.
You're correct that 'die Russen' in German can mean one of the other, and, yes, I consciouscly did translate it the way I did for the reason given above, in addition to the more than obvious pro-Kiyv slant (bias) across most of German-language lecacy media.
It would be a nice example of how propaganda works, true, if I did so without acknowledging it in the first place, at least in my understanding.
I've done my share of bringing these biases to the readership's attention here. Could one do 'more'? Absolutely, but keep in mind I'm a one-man show, I'm doing this here in my spare time, and I'm not asking for any money in return.
You're more than correct in your poignant assessment that both Holodomor and the MH-17 catastrophe are important to the understanding of the events since (at least 2014). These don't play any role in the above-related piece, though, hence I felt it was o.k. to leave them out.
As to my 'vision', well, I'm unsure about that one, to tell you the truth. What I do know is that I strive to show media bias, gaslighting, and, yes, propaganda.
Whoever will write the history of these events (it won't be me) will eventually figure this out long you and I have 'moved on', I suppose.
As to: " ‘I don't want to die for these people who twiddle their thumbs and wait for Putin.’
[I have no idea what Punf means by this"
It is very easy to understand: the majority of inhabitants of the Donbass and adjacent regions don´t want to belong to Ukraine anymore. That is the dirty secret of this war. On the one hand Ukraine claims to want to "liberate" the Donbass. But on the other hand the actual people there don´t want to be "liberated" by anybody but the Russians. Witness also the latest call of Selenskyi to evacuate the Donbass. Why would he do that if supposedly people there opposed the Russians?
Good point. The way I read this, it's 'I don't want to fight and die for the reasons you gave.
Also: it kinda gives away the Russian superiorty in terms of bombs and artillery in the Donbass.
Please give me the original German quotation. By the way it reminds me of an article in "Rolling Stone" where the writer accompanied Ukrainian troops in the Donbass. As an aside the Ukrainians told the US journalist they didn´t trust the locals and suspected them of feeding them information. In a later version of the article this information was dropped.
I also had a talk by phone with a very good friend of mine. He is Russian and can´t publish in Russia. He is completely opposed to the war and was in Ukraine reporting for Meduza. He told me that half the people he talked to in Kramatorsk, Mikolajev and Odessa were "fanatically pro Russian".
The lies our media feed us about the Ukraine war would make Goebbels proud.
Here's the original paragraph:
Während ihre Kameraden Sledak und Rijs in den Donbass versetzt werden – der Asow-Effekt soll auch dort für eine Kehrtwende sorgen –, sind die beiden in Charkiw geblieben, zunächst einmal. Punf hat wenig Lust auf "Bombass". "Deshalb bin ich 2014 nicht Soldat geworden", sagt er. Damals konzentrierte sich der Konflikt auf den Osten des Landes; Russland war nur marginal ein Thema. "Ich will nicht für diese Leute sterben, die Däumchen drehen und auf Putin warten."
Th sentence in question is the last one, I think.
As to Ukraine vs. Goebbels: I'm certain of that.
Few groups are as racist as the ADL. They give themselves the right to declare the cultural heritage of people like me as racist, right-wing extremist, and national socialist.
They have apparently never heard of 'Reductio ad Hitlerum' (also called "Hitler ate sugar-fallacy"). They can all go die in a fire. Let's see them declare the scimitar, the shahada, the shova, the hammer & sickle, the red star, or any of thousands of other symbols and geometric figures as crimethink.
No, they won't, will they?
Only symbols of peoples who will not bomb them, not assault them, not throw molotovs at their homes are fair game. More than 370 000 dead due to the Saudi war in Jemen. A race war as much as 'holy' war as it is realpolitik. Does the green flag of islam make the ADLs list of unsanctioned symbols? No.
(I know, this isn't the focus of the post, but it is a part of the greater culture war aimed at destroying all our heritage by declaring it "nazi", one symbol at the time.)
Rikard, I'm not going to argue with you about the ADL comment, for I'm with you on this one. (Still, every group that's ethnically or religiously biased is, inhrently so, I'd argue, very much in favour of furthering their own group's interests: the ADL isn't different in this regard, but they do have a much bigger bullhorn than, say, the Hmong or Eritrean interest groups.)
I'm moving to call this 'cognitive dissonance', and an extreme form of it.
As to the bottom comment in parentheses, well, if everything becomes Nazified, I suppose we must talk about WW2, its (comprehensive) origins, and the many lies hat surround that conflict ever since.
I believe (ot think - denken) that acknowledging ethnic/racial bias can be done in a non-hateful way, and that it breeds far worse long-time effects to repress, ignore and try to 'unperson' all the differences great and small between people.
As I'm sure to have mentioned, it's a matter of perspective as in distance, both physical and cultural.
How different are swedes and danes, really? Well, who's asking? To us, we are very different - but ask a lapplander or an älvdaling or a tornedaling and they'll tell you scanians are basically danes, whereas the scanian would claim the tornedalings are more or less finns.
It would I think be far better to allow such differences to exist, even to be emphasised as friendly jibes and competition, thus burying ancient grudges under a layer of laughter.
The cinch is this: displacing ethnicities, as has been done intentionally by many powerbrokers both today and historically, cannot be allowed to take palce and influence this.
In eastern Ukraine, the population is mixed. To me, they all look and sound the same, which would insult them both (and I guess it's no surprise to you how many people who might quip that austrians are basically germans, not knowing the history of either) - and that I think makes it difficult for us to understand this just as Jugoslavia was. We (as in westrn/northern europeans within the US cultural hegemony) looked at Jugoslavia and saw peace, not understanding that said peace was imposed by military dictatorship ultimately backed by the Red Army. Remove both the authoritarian forces enforcing peace with the threat of force, and all the old repressed conflicts boil up. Same with Ukraine, basically. Compare it to the Baltic states, where neither Russia nor NATO managed to create this situation 10 years ago, though not for lack of trying. The russians in the Baltic states simply didn't have much to complain about, having far more freedoms and civil liberties than in Russia, and thus didn't want to serve as Putin's proxies anymore than the Latvians et al wanted to be Clinton's and Bush's stooges.
Speaking of Eritrea, the entire Horn of Africamight be coming to a boil. If the US looks to be electing Trump again in two years, or an equivalent person, China will have to move quickly to cement its influence before the US can pay off Egypt and Saudi do act in their stead. In two years time, the US will not have the economy for much of its present adventurism, if the trends hold - by then as many as 20 000 000 migrants from South and Central America may have crossed the border. That's 20 000 000 more mouths to feed, waste to handle, and pander to in local elections.
As an aside, a lot of ukrainian refugees here are returning, due to mistreatment from swedish governement authorities: single mothers being placed among moslem men for instance. Also, the state media tirelessly pumps out the message that they aren' really refugees and are very expensive, a line of argument and questions they frequently call "nazism" when people ask about the costs of 1 500 000 unemployable africans, arabs and sundry, all lacking need for asylum (due to them flying home to visit the places they've 'fled' from).
Disgusting - the socialist Democrats simply fears that potentially hundreds of thousands of refugees from a former socialist state won't vote for them, but might instead vote for the Christian Democrats.
I know a woman here, a Ukrainian immigrant to the USA. She's in her 40s, a US citizen now, but still has family in Ukraine. Back in 2014, I asked her for her opinion on what was going on during the Maidan unpleasantness. She refused to talk about it. This spring I asked her what she thought of the current situation. She said, "Putin has succeeded in uniting all Ukrainians against him." I was intrigued by this, because I know her native language is Russian, not Ukrainian, and I pointed that out. "Yes, that's correct, but that doesn't mean I'm Russian!"
Hmmm, interesting.
I also know (knew) a bunch of Ukrainian-Americans during my stay in the US (NY): most left in the 1970s, and they're supportive because it's where their parents grew up. Can't (won't) argue with that notion, but it's hard to see how and where this argument (patriotism) ends and where the ill effects (nationalism, or worse) begins.
The quest to capture the hierarchy has been going on in Europe for thousands of years. The more brutal of them know the more they can take which always results in the less they can hold. But still that's ok with them, they can hide with those ill-gotten gains in the Swiss Mountains.
I think the Swiss are weak and could easily be wiped out if Europe flipped the switch to take it all back.
Well, if memory (of 10 years living in Switzerland) serves, you're not supposed to tell them that their 'black gold' is, actually and literally, stolen gold.
As to whether or not Switzerland could have been invaded in WW1 and WW2, well, I suppose that their continud existence served one or more purposes (think: the 'Bank of Int'l Settlement' in Basle).
Hahaha!
I know a Swiss who emigrated and started a farm here in the state I live in. Interesting farm plan with all natural methodology (he vacationed in Switzerland in winter as the cows went dry) 3/4 hand dairy cows being pastured, the cows fed themselves! One little bitty tractor on 180 acres. So there has to be some people there that would be willing to rebel.
holodomor
flight mh 17
those terms mean anything to you?
and by the way the translation of "Russen"is not "rooskies"but "russians", your bias is showing....
Hi Jan, thanks for the comment.
As to these terms, yes, I know about them. Is there an argument contained therein that's not whataboutism?
As to the translation, please read the opening paragraph of the translation, which contains the below-reprduced explanation:
[die Russen, a common trope that, while seemingly o.k.-ish as a descriptor, is used throughout the piece; it also has quite negative connotations, hence this translation]
Thanks for reading, though.
so you think you can translate the absolutely neutral word "die Russen " by the not neutral word "rooskies"?
you claim that "die Russen" has negative connotations?
not in german it doesn't .
you replaced a neutral word with a negative word and call it a translation?
now isn't that a nice example of how propaganda works.....
as for holodomor and mh17.
no whataboutism about them.
anyone who knows history will know why they are important for the understanding of what has been happening over the past 8 years.
but i guess that history that does not align with your vision is to be ignored.
Thanks for the reply, Jan!
I thought I could--should--do so due to the pro-Azov slant in the piece.
You're correct that 'die Russen' in German can mean one of the other, and, yes, I consciouscly did translate it the way I did for the reason given above, in addition to the more than obvious pro-Kiyv slant (bias) across most of German-language lecacy media.
It would be a nice example of how propaganda works, true, if I did so without acknowledging it in the first place, at least in my understanding.
I've done my share of bringing these biases to the readership's attention here. Could one do 'more'? Absolutely, but keep in mind I'm a one-man show, I'm doing this here in my spare time, and I'm not asking for any money in return.
You're more than correct in your poignant assessment that both Holodomor and the MH-17 catastrophe are important to the understanding of the events since (at least 2014). These don't play any role in the above-related piece, though, hence I felt it was o.k. to leave them out.
As to my 'vision', well, I'm unsure about that one, to tell you the truth. What I do know is that I strive to show media bias, gaslighting, and, yes, propaganda.
Whoever will write the history of these events (it won't be me) will eventually figure this out long you and I have 'moved on', I suppose.