'7 Oct. 2023 was worth the prize', according to Hamas

Hamas Health Minister talks to Norwegian Legacy Media and spills some beans about the 7 Oct. Attacks, the plight of Gazans, and Hamas' alleged willingness to cooperate with Tel Aviv

Just the other day in the evening, the below piece was put up on Norwegian state broadcaster NRK’s website. I’ve translated it, with emphases and [snark] added.

There’s an English-language interview found on that website at the bottom, which is the base for the written article and I recommend it to you (there’s not a lot ‘new’ to learn here, though).

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Hamas to NRK: ‘7 October Was Worth the Price’

Hamas was behind the worst attack on Israel ever. Since then, almost 50,000 Palestinians have been killed. Hamas leader Basem Naim has no regrets.

By Yama Wolasmal and Oda Eggesbø Ottesen, NRK, 19 Feb. 2025 [source]

Palestinians have been oppressed, humiliated and persecuted for years. Such a life is not worth living. Either we live with dignity and freedom like everyone else in the world, or we do not.

[interviewer] So in your liberation struggle, are you saying that the 7 October attack was worth the price they paid?

Yes.

This is what Basem Naim says, after NRK read out the known consequences of the terrorist attack on 7 October 2023.

Naim himself has lost his father, mother, grandchildren, nieces, and house in the Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip. He was formerly Minister of Health for the Hamas government.

More than 47,000 Palestinians have been killed in the war [is that a war? If so, certain rules apply—to both, as Israel and the State of Palestine have acceded to the Genevan Conventions], according to Palestinian health authorities. More than 100,000 have been injured. Schools, hospitals and roads have been bombed. 400,000 homes have been completely destroyed. Gaza is described as ‘unlivable’ by the UN.

The day Hamas entered Israel, 1,200 Israelis were killed [all by Hamas? I’m by no means justifying any of it; all I’m saying there are credible reports (e.g., in the Times of Israel, citing Haaretz) that some of the Israeli dead were due to ‘friendly fire’, mostly due to confusion and hysteria, it would seem] and 251 taken hostage.

The soldiers [that would be Hamas] broke into homes and killed the occupants, and shot young adults at a music festival. The hostages included the elderly, women, and children.

There are now 73 hostages in Gaza, the BBC reports. It is not known how many are alive.

[NRK] Can you tell us how many Israeli hostages they still have, both dead and alive?

[Naim] I don't have any details about that.

He explains that between 10,000 and 15,000 people are still trapped under the rubble, and that many of them are Israelis. The figures come from the health authorities in Gaza.

Admits Mistakes that Hamas Took Hostages

[NRK] Explain to us why Hamas took hostages in the first place.

[Naim] We have tried, Palestinians in general and people in Gaza in particular, to find a political solution to this conflict that is peaceful by negotiating [ahem; I understand that it’s hard to negotiate with a gun placed at one’s hand, but when was the last time you people sat down with anyone, incl. the other Palestinian authorities in the West Bank?]

[NRK] What is the result?

[Naim] More annexation of the land [by Israel], more takeover of Jerusalem, new attacks on the al-Aqsa mosque. Gaza is completely surrounded and suffocating.

He goes on to point out that one million Palestinians have been imprisoned in Israel since 1967, a figure reported by the UN in 2023.

The report goes on to say that several tens of thousands of these are children.

[Naim] Many are imprisoned without being charged or convicted. As a people living under occupation, we have the right to oppose it [right or no right, he has a point—and while I’m unsure it is a good thing to do so, let’s mention that if you resist an occupier, you run certain risks greater than normal]

Hamas soldiers in Khan Younis before the prisoner exchange on 15 February. Naim claims that several of the Israeli hostages lie under the ruins of Israeli attacks on Gaza. (Picture credit: AP)

‘But not everything went according to plan when Hamas entered Israel [on 7 Oct. 2023]’, he says.

Naim claims that the mastermind behind the attack, Hamas leader Mohammed Deif, ordered the Hamas forces that attacked Israel to avoid harming civilians, especially women and children:

Our late brother said it clearly: this is a war for peace and dignity, but we must respect and protect women, children, minors, and the elderly.

That’s why we had clear instructions to avoid these groups.

[NRK] So you recognise that women and children should not have been taken hostage that day?

[Naim] Yes. With the exception of militant members of Israel’s forces.

However, Hamas still has women and children as hostages [of course they do].

Despite several hostage exchanges as part of the ceasefire with Israel, they have refused to release them without conditions.

Compares Gaza to Europe in wartime

When challenged about the suffering Palestinians have endured over the past 16 months, Naim turns his attention to the struggle of the Allies during the Second World War [sigh].

[Naim] If you ask about Hamas’s responsibility, I have to ask everyone who listens about the leaders of the Western countries who fought against Nazis and fascists [see, Hamas is effectively the Allies in WW2; no, really, that’s essentially his claim].

They destroyed London, Paris, Dresden and many other cities. 40 million people were killed because of this [unsure where he got that number of people killed by the Allies, but hey, whatever, I suppose, at this point], but in the end they counted themselves as winners [also, it’s the winners who write the history books thereafter].

The reason for this, he believes, is that the Allied countries ‘saved their own people’ from the Nazis and fascists [well, I’ve got news for Mr. Naim here…]:

I don't think you can just talk about one element of this very large conflict and deny the larger, noble goals [hard to know from the context if Mr. Naim speaks about WW2 still or about the current conflict].

At the same time, many of the Palestinians NRK has spoken to since the war broke out have been angry at both Hamas and Israel [gee, I wonder why…].

[NRK] What do you say to those Palestinians who say that Hamas, in addition to Israel, is destroying their lives and has the blood of 50,000 Palestinians on its hands?

I’m not someone who speaks from hotels here and there, I’m part of this. I lost my house, I lost parts of my family, I’ve been separated from my family for months [note the rank-ordering: house, dead family, separation from family—in that order; note that Mr. Naim didn’t say anything].

But at the end of the day, Hamas is ready to leave the government in the Gaza Strip and allow a government representing Palestinians to come in [would that signify that Hamas admits to not representing Palestinians here?].

Due to the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, Palestinians can once again cross between southern and northern Gaza [note that this is depicted as something that was apparently not possible before 7 Oct. 2023…]. This is the view of those who have travelled home to Jabalia refugee camp. (Photo credit: Reuters)

Denies US Can Take Ownership

The US President says that the US wants to buy Gaza and turn it into the ‘Riviera of the Middle East’ [I doubt the US will ‘buy’ anything there, rather ‘take it’].

‘The reconstruction of Gaza is estimated to cost more than 500 billion kroner [approx. US$ 50b], and it will take at least ten years just to remove the ruins and all the unexploded ordnance’, says the UN [I find this hard to believe: much larger piles of rubble were cleaned by hand in summer and autumn 1945…].

Donald Trump says they will take responsibility for this, but without the Palestinians present. He wants to move them to neighbouring Egypt and Jordan.

[Naim] I think many Western politicians, including Trump himself, don’t understand what a homeland means [that’s a white supremacist thought right there]

It’s the law of the jungle that prevails when anyone with power can take the property or land of others [it’s what it is, ask Thucydides, and it’s always been done by the strong vs. the weak]. That’s why this project is rejected [good one; we could also have the UN’s Int’l Organization of Migration have dump som tens of thousands of ‘refugees’ there, if that’s preferable, Mr. Naim, for that is wrecking my homeland].

Fragile Negotiations Of Phase Two

This week, negotiations begin in Qatar on the next phase of the ceasefire.

This involves a permanent ceasefire, the last remaining Israeli hostages being sent home in exchange for Palestinian prisoners in Israel, and the complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip [and then what? Will the borders of Gaza stay closed? That’s merely waiting for an epidemic to break out…].

‘Will the ceasefire lead to an end to the war, or will “all hell break loose”, as Donald Trump has said’, asks NRK [remember: we’re talking the above conditions, which are related akin to Orwell’s ‘war is peace’ trope].

[Naim] It was already hell from the point of view of the inhabitants of Gaza.

The talks were due to start on 4 February. There is great uncertainty as to whether Israel and Hamas will honour their sides of the agreement, especially after Trump’s announcement last week.

[Naim] We're working steadily and hard to give this agreement a chance to be finalised.

I hope that the mediators, especially the Americans, exert enough pressure on the Israeli side [that is a fair point, and, sadly, NRK didn’t follow-up here].

This interview is from this week’s episode of Yama Challenges on Urix. You can find the entire programme here [it’s embedded at the bottom of the NRK piece, introduced by a brief Norwegian recap; the interview is done in English and starts at the 1:30 time stamp—and I expressly recommend it to you as the above piece is…well, let’s say an exercise in creative writing].

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Bottom Lines

At the end of the filmed interview, there’s a relevant exchange—which is omitted from the written version—and it follows the statement by Mr. Naim about the Palestinian homeland.

The NRK journo™ asks Mr. Naim bluntly if Hamas would recognise Israel.

And the answer—if Palestine in its 1967 borders would be recognised, then Hamas is allegedly willing to ‘work with Israel’.

Now, wouldn’t that be something to note?

While I’m unsure if Mr. Naim spoke for himself there or for Hamas as a whole, what strikes me most is the utterly surreal qualities of that comment (which are much in line with what I’ve dubbed the ‘surreal turn’ in IR):

Absent a, say, nuclear strike on Tel Aviv or the like, there’s not a chance in hell that Israel will give up any territory it has seized since 1967. Now, I’m not commenting on whether or not that’s legal, fair, or ‘right™’, I’m merely pointing out facts.

These parameters may change if and when Western (mainly US) support for Israel disappears (which I consider the most likely antecedent to the end of Israel), which would see a veritable Exodus 2.0, albeit in reverse.

The territory, Palestine, will then quickly revert to what the other Moslem countries are: no, I’m not quoting Mr. Trump on that one, but I suppose you know that the prospects for the Palestinian people look dim either way.

What then, is to be done?

I suppose preparations should be carried out in case of major dislocations may convince large segments of Israelis to leave rather suddenly.

If that’s the case, however, I fully expect major civil unrest in most Western countries with their sizeable and increasingly militant Moslem populations.

I suspect the most ‘elegant’ solution would be to prepare for a ‘population transfer’: airlift the Israelis to Europe or North America and deport the Moslems to the area in exchange (it’s also useful from a business perspective: no empty flights).

Doing so is hugely unpopular, and I’m not advocating it. I’m merely saying what I consider the best-case scenario under these conditions.

Everything else is arguably worse (an increasingly besieged Israel on the retreat, bleeding emigrants for years), rising ‘discontent’ on Western streets (with blood running), and the spectre of a desperate decision (say, the nuking of an Arab city by the IDF, which will, likely, invite retaliation).

Whatever happens, it’ll be a shitshow.